The Internet Is Evil! WAKE UP!

[Valotonin]

I don't want to post on this thread any more really.

[Valotonin]

Max. When you accuse someone of thinking simply etc. it reflects badly on your ability to converse in a polite manor. Its called character assassination and it is a bad tactic used between enemies, not friends. I am really sorry for saying this. Differences of opinion are inevitable. There is no such thing as right or wrong. I don't think you are wrong for thinking what you do about the internet, I just don't agree. Telling me that my level of thinking is lower than yours for having a different opinion could be quite hurtful if I was in a different mood. I certainly wouldn't accuse you of the same, even if I secretly believed it.

[MAXIMUS MISCHIEF]

sorry that u took offense i was commentin on the thought not the thinker. i bet u are frikin awsome urself regarldess of the silly idea ur talkin about here

but 4 sure if that was not cool 2 u then i am sry . ja bless<3

(i also have trouble with this thread the whole entire concept is silly as frick imo.. bless bocs heart on the phrase i know where theyre comin from , i think its a troll/joke on their online fans. i just think ppl are goin way 2 far with it)

[Valotonin]

Ah no worries, max (:
Even if BoC where trolling about it, It would be an opinion I hold close though. I wouldn't follow blindly and adhere to everything they say.

[Cupz]

I always thought they were quoting Lem for some reason.

I like the idea of virtual reality in a way, I think it is a very important step. I just don't like how people are handling it now. There is to little choice. Its either you connect to a multi-billion coorporation or you're out of the loop. We've discussed this on skype before, max. I remember you where very reluctant to try out something new. Its a very common thought, people seem to be so amazed by the communicational abilities of the internet they fail to see its full potential. They are content with the little they have, not even afraid to give up everything they have (themselves). There are so many alternatives, some completely free to the point of insanity, free as in speech, beer and breathing itself. I like the idea of being able to talk to everyone in the world, but I hate the idea that every word spoken is recorded and could be turned against you in the future. Its safe to say you enjoy an adult film or even a book now, but its forever engraved in granite and the moment it becomes frowned upon, either by political power or society itself its off with their head. We see this all the time in history. What if something like the holocaust happened now? But instead of jews, say as a stupid example musicians? I know Max would be safe, considering his geological advantage, but I'd be arrested and killed in mere minutes. I could never escape.

I'm not afraid to die anymore and all this facebook business sure as hell doesnt keep me up at night anymore, but its not what I would call a good reason to blurt out everything you think over billions of commercial, politic-heavy, all-recording, unencrypted servers all put under the eyes of incredibly biased judges, especially considering the countless alternatives of even more amazing creative virtual playgrounds. I've seen some people working on a TOTALLY FREE (and not merely "gratis") total-immersion VR platform that will change everything we thought we knew about the internet.

[A_Northern_Soul]

I'm going to jump in here & agree with Maximus...

The internet like any tool or innovation has it's faults, but it is also the biggest force for social change any of us have seen in our lifetimes as well as the biggest revolution in communication or entertainment any of are likely to see.

If you're ever in a situation where "the man" is hounding you because of your Facebook likes or Pornhub habits, I think you'll have bigger things to worry about than cursing Google. And quite frankly - sorry for picking at old wounds - in this boards' experience the one time "the man" did take an interest in someone due to their internet history, there was a good reason. For must of us - I hate to break it to you - but the man doesn't really give a toss about you.

By using Facebook am I the product being sold? Yes. But in that case I think it's worth the trade off to maintain relationships with friends and family around the world.

"The X is evil, wake up!"

At various points X has been the printing press, the internal combustion engine, rock n roll, universal sufferage, the aeroplane, the microwave oven, steam engines....

[Valotonin]

"The X is evil, wake up!"

Google X is evil...

[Valotonin]

Sorry I have lost the ability to discuss because I am trying to ween myself back to an acceptable caffeine tolerance (tired). I am just a technophobe, but I trust my instincts. My innermost mind is telling me that no good can come of this and that is all in reality. I just want the option of living with minimal technology, and I want that to be an option for everyone always. Nothing like that should be mandatory.

[Valotonin]

This whole forced to be in the loop thing. Making it social suicide (or the illusion of) to get yourself off the digital grid. There is also this almost fierce anxiety to be 'new' and 'ahead of the curve' whether it is business or personal. This whole agenda idk. Can't talk. Cupz says a lot of what I want to say though (thank you).

[MAXIMUS MISCHIEF]

guys i have to add 1 thing on top of all this . i love the natural living stuff i am super into it i think we should all strive 2 be self sufficient and much more connected with nature. but i think we should also be very thoughtful and creativ with the new tools available. i think internet should stay with its pros but we should work on the cons whatever way we can 2gether. havin chats like these is 1 way of doin it but then there are also other ways. i think the basic topic 'X is evil get out!' is 2 simplistic and the despairing attitude is damaging 2 the good progress.
"This whole forced to be in the loop thing."
i dont think this is forced , you are totally free to do your own thing and not take part.. u will just have to work 4 it.
we can go on about possible agendas and the 1 i am most concerned with is the singularity . i bet we would all agree it is not a good idea . but my solution is dif, i think 'stopping using internet' is a very bad idea when it comes 2 that.
"Cupz: max reluctant to try new ideas" well i just like good ideas and when i see 1 that is not so good i just aint into it ;p like tryin 2 get off the internet is basically throwin ur sword down and runnin with the tail between ur legs as an artist in this time.

[Valotonin]

The streams around where I live are so polluted that even if I distilled the water it would make me sick. The industry has poisoned the water and leaves you no option but to buy their regurgitated chlorinated and sometimes fluoridated water. It is against the law for me to go and live in the forest and I would eventually be found by the police and forced to move in to 'proper' accommodation. It is illegal for me to grow medicinal plants such as opium and marijuana because 'they just don't want you to hurt yourself'. Being a human is illegal/ impossible now unless you play by the rules they implement. I can't do basic things that are as akin to humanity as water to the ocean without facing legal consequences. Society.

[Valotonin]

In retrospect that was pretty off topic, I apologise. Yeah the internet can be a good thing but, where money is involved, my faith is lost. People can be scarily self centered and merciless when it comes to financial gains.

[MAXIMUS MISCHIEF]

[pianoforte]

I don't want to post on this thread any more really.

Hold on, Valotonin. You have a very interesting point of view (a lot of which I agree with) and I, for one, enjoy talking with you.

...Well, internet-talking. You know what I mean, I guess. Either way, please don't let others' negativity get you down.

[Valotonin]

Hold on, Valotonin. You have a very interesting point of view (a lot of which I agree with) and I, for one, enjoy talking with you.

...Well, internet-talking. You know what I mean, I guess. Either way, please don't let others' negativity get you down.

Bless you. I would be interested in hearing what you have to contribute to this, though. Always stuck me as someone with an interesting viewpoint. I don't think anyone else is being negative here, though. The thing with max was mostly me reading it as something hostile when it wasn't intended to be.

[Cupz]

Your encrypted data might also be mined for future exploits. Beware the quantum computer.

[Valotonin]

Your encrypted data might also be mined for future exploits. Beware the quantum computer.

I think I understand somewhat where you are going with this. Can you elaborate?

I feel that no data that is on a machine capable of being connected to the internet is safe or has been safe since the mid 00's

[Cupz]

The encryption of today might not be sufficient for future technologies. Decrypting a 4096-bit RSA will be a breeze for the quantum computers of tomorrow. New encryption technologies are being developed, but it will be impossible to re-crypt the data already collected, especially all that stuff in the cloud (aka other people's computers). All encrypted data collected now could be accessible in the near future. From what I understand quantum computers are uniquely capable of solving these kind of problems. It's probably no coincidence google is spending a lot of money on this stuff. Things like VPN's and TOR might not be a perfect solution, everything still passes through your ISPs albeit encrypted. People might be incarcerated tomorrow for their encrypted activities of today.

Mind you this is all my own research and paranoid logic, I'd love to be proven wrong!

[Negamuse]

No, you're pretty much right there. Quantum computers... there's nothing magical about them except that they redraw the flattening curve of "computer power getting better every year" and make the premise at the heart of encryption (that there is maths that is prohibitively time expensive to do with current and near-future technology, whose increasing power has up to now been predictable) redundant. Everything that's out there that's encrypted with this "staying just ahead of the curve of computing power" mentality is potentially vulnerable once they come online, and the thing keeping you safe then is the hope that you're a needle in a very big haystack, too obscure to be noteworthy.

Where I disagree is: are we going to see a bunch of arrests for stuff that's finally able to be decoded when quantum computers are a thing? Probably not, just because law has already found a way around technical defecits on behalf of the interested. In the UK at least, the state has had the power since the mid 90s to compel you to supply your encryption keys and if you refuse, send you to prison for years. Depending on what you've got locked up in there, that may well be a longer sentence than if it wasn't encrypted at all! So yeah, if they wanted you, they'd already have the tools to get you.

Of course it's not just the law though, is it, it's the data that corporations can be interested in. Like you say, the problem is keeping your secrets in other people's computers. And to that I'd add, what it's possible to do when so much of your personal data is held about you without your knowledge and mineable by interested parties.

[moonfruit]

I do not think that Internet is evil. We have brain in order to filter unuseful information and to keep balance between the time we spend in the Internet and real life. Internet gives us an opportunity to study fast and to gain information by a mouse click.